Yesterday on Golf Central, Brandell Chamblee commented on Jake's swing. He showed his hands going inside on the backswing and then going outside and "over the top" on the downswing. He thought that this was a great move.

When I tried this I hit the ball great but it seemd to cause my right elbow to get away from my right side as Jim recommends. Any comments?

I went through this thought a week ago. My read is Jim Hardy wants the elbow not to pass the hip before impact. He also says to keep a space between the body and the right arm ( RH golfer) on the BS. On the DS that space is still required to let the release occur naturally.I found my swing to be more fluid and powerfull with this space. My feeling was that the right elbow was another inner concentric circle as he mentions in a drill of concentric circles for the clubhead and hands. This was something I really had to work on and was probably a fault when I was a 2PS. Just my take so far.

I saw this too but I didn't think that he was OTT as it is commonly referred to. He is over his backswing plane, but doesn't appear to be over the plane set by the club at address. I would guess that this is something that occurs naturally with the proper rotation, but not something one would strive to attempt to do purposefully.

Brandel was correct in his observations about not only Peter, but in my opinion, the ideal one-plane swing as well. The downswing is not over the top of the address position or the plane or the ball, but rather the downswing is slightly over the top of the backswing. The real issue is that the downswing is ON PLANE while the back swing is slightly UNDER THE PLANE. The arms in the backswing go inside, tight, against and around the body. This motion is slightly UNDER THE PLANE that a correct downswing will moving on. In the downswing, the upper body turns the arms back out and onto the correct plane or SLIGHTLY ON TOP OF THE BACKSWING PLANE.

I hope this is understandable and can clear up some mysteries. I don't go into this in the book because I did not want confusion about what a one-plane swing was on the part of the reader. This is detail that I will be including in the second book. The one-plane swing versus the two-plane swing are descriptions I use to illustrate the differences between swinging the arms around the upper torso and onto SOMEWHAT the same plane as the shoulders are turning or to swing the arms up and down in front of the body on a different plane than the shoulders are turning. The use of the term one-plane swing was never meant to imply that the backswing and the downswing are on one and the same plane. In fact, as stated above, I prefer the backswing and downswing to be on slightly different planes. However, having said this, others may like the backswing and the downswing to be on the same plane or even the downswing plane to be slightly under the backswing plane. In all three cases, if the arms are swinging around the body (as versus up and down in front of the body) on SOMEWHAT the same plane as the shoulders are turning, they are all three examples of one-plane swings, just three variations of the one-plane swing.


Jim Hardy

I have taken 3 lessons from Chris O'Connell at DA's Spring Creek Driving Range in Plano, TX. The "slightly" over the backswing plane on the downswing feels huge to me ... someone who has been taught for years to come way inside on the downswing.

Chris says the right arm moves way behind me on the BS but not at 90 degrees; its more like 45 degrees, creating the space needed on the right side for the DS.

Chris is a great teacher for anyone looking for at teacher in the Dallas area.

Brandell Chamblee's commentary and video on the Golf Channel are "must sees" for anyone trying this method.

Hello,

I'm an assistant professional at a club in Nashville. I dont have much time to play, but this year after reading the book I have went to one plane. I have had very good success but trying to finialize the last few things with the swing. I have seen the Olin (sp?) Browne move that the post is about. If I feel like im coming over the top on a steeper plane than the backswing with a practice swing, it feels good to me. I can feel the club come from the inside and then back inside on the left side of my body. But, when attempting with a full swing I hit it dead left. Starts left and then goes left. Any ideas on what I am doing wrong?

Thanks

Markster,
Keep your right elbow behind your right hip and your hands as close to your fight pants leg as you possibly can (inner circle) while turning your upper body as hard as you can in your spine angle. The more you stay bent over and turn your upper body, the tighter your hands must be to your right leg. If your right elbow leads (a mistake in Hogan's book) the right arm and in front of the right hip, one of three things will happen. You will either straighten up your spine angle and hit with a club stuck behind you, or you will hit in the heel, or you will slap the ball left. None of these are acceptable alternatives. KEEP THE SPINE ANGLE BENT OVER...AGGRESSIVELY TURN YOUR UPPER BODY AROUND A BENT OVER SPINE ANGLE...KEEP YOUR RIGHT ELBOW UP AND BEHIND YOUR RIGHT HIP AND YOUR HANDS AS LOW AND AS CLOSE TO YOUR RIGHT LEG AS POSSIBLE.
Best wishes,
Jim Hardy

Mr. Hardy:

What you are saying about Peter's swing makes a lot of sense. One thing I am curious of is IF you teach your students (particularly PGA Tour players) to drop the clubhead back (shallowing it) in the transition. The students that I have studied, Olin Browne, Peter Jacobsen, Tom Pernice, and Scott McCarron all seem to drop the clubhead back in the transition with the arms working down on a slightly steeper plane than they come work in the backswing. To me it seems that Olin Browne does this in a more pronounced manner than Peter Jacobsen for instance. Olin, to me, seems as though if he didn't drop the clubhead back in the transiion he would come down quite steeply. Do you teach a move as I am describing or do these players naturally make such a move automatically, perhaps as a result of being two-plane swingers prior to working with you? Or am I simply not analyzing their swings correctly? If you do in fact teach PGA Tour players this way, without such a move what level of ball striker can a player likely become?

Thank you for considering my questions,

Matt Rodock

The shallowing, lay-off of the club in the downswing by some players is not something I teach, nor do I think that it is either good or bad. It is simply a one-plane variation that is a good players reaction to the swing being slightly too narrow or steep. In Olin's case, he struggles with getting his arms deep enough and far enough behind his body in the backswing and as a result when he turns his upper body in the downswing, he slightly lays the shaft off to keep the club from being swung across the ball. Olin's shoulder turn in the downswing is additionally slightly off in that he tends to stand up slightly out of his posture and his shoulders rotate a little too level to the ground (out of the zone). In the book, I talk about how you can turn the shoulders as hard as you like in the downswing as long as you do not raise your spine angle, or get your arms in front of your body. Olin does both of these things slightly and we work on both of these. As he does these better, the club has less and less movement at the top. When he reverts to the arms out and the spine up, the club shallows more and more. Virtually the only two things we work on are spine down, right elbow up and behind, left arm low and tight across the chest in the backswing; keep your spine angle and turn your upper body around the bent over spine in the downswing.

Relative to Peter, the only time he is shallowing the club is when his shoulders are turning too flat to his spine angle in the backswing.

Jim Hardy

JH,

I worked with a women, who spent a little time with you. I believe
it was recently, but I don't know how recent. She is the new teaching professional at Fishers Island. Her is name is K. Dunn. She put me on tape for a few swings. She thought that I had characteristics of both types of swings.

We changed quickly:
--More spine tilt and less knee bend
--More of a vertical shaft... Less forward press at address
--Backswing without such an early right elbow bend
**More turn in the shoulders and hips to get the club deep in the backswing

She thought I had a lot of positive things going in the downswing, except that I have downswing that is re-routed hard from the inside. Now all I have to do, beside work on my takeaway is get the club back deeper.

Main difference: I'm really on top of the ball and it feels like less effort to hit the ball.

This woman was outstanding. What an eye and understanding. She has a lot of talent. Plus, her ability to whip through the V1 was impressive.

Right now she is on Fishers. I'll find out where she is in the winter. She is really good.

Yes, her name is Krista Dunton and you are right she is excellent. She teaches at Belfair on Hilton Head Island in the fall/winter/spring.
Jim Hardy

Jim,

Could you please comment further about “low hands”?

Specifically, I have two questions:

1) Should one “feel” low hands in both the backswing and downswing?

2) Above you said: “KEEP THE SPINE ANGLE BENT OVER...AGGRESSIVELY TURN YOUR UPPER BODY AROUND A BENT OVER SPINE ANGLE...KEEP YOUR RIGHT ELBOW UP AND BEHIND YOUR RIGHT HIP AND YOUR HANDS AS LOW AND AS CLOSE TO YOUR RIGHT LEG AS POSSIBLE.”

How can the hands be low at the same time the right elbow is UP? Wouldn’t lowering the hands straighten out the right elbow?

Thank you for your consideration and assistance.

I was referring to the hands low during the downswing. I also am saying that during the downswing you are trying to do two things with you arms, (1) you are trying to keep your elbow up and behind and (2)your hands as low and as close to your right leg as possible (inner circle). I did not say keep your hands as low and as close to your right leg as possible with both arms straight. What I want to convey is while keeping your elbow up and behind you, get your hands as low and as tight to your right leg as possible. The result will have the hands low and close to your right leg (inner circle) but obviously not as low as if you straightened out both arms. The key words are the hands as low and as tight to the right leg as POSSIBLE while keping the right elbow up and behind you. I hope this clears up any muddied water.
Jim Hardy

Mr. Hardy:

Every time I have logged on today you have supplied us with an illuminating answer to a question. I am very grateful, thank you! This forum was a fantastic idea and the fact you are so involved is unbelievable.

I think I read you don't do individual instruction (non-tour player) any longer. Just making sure as I make it down to Houston a couple times a year.

Thanks,

Matt

Hi Jim:

With the 1P swing all I'm really thinking about is turning my shoulders back till I'm fully coiled, then on the downswing just turning my shoulders forward as hard as I can, that's it. I'm not thinking at all about whether my hands are high or low or close to my leg, etc.

Should I be thinking more about this or just leaving well enough alone? It seems to work pretty well this way for me.

Thanks In Advance.

Posted By JH on 7/13/2005 8:32:25 PM

The result will have the hands low and close to your right leg (inner circle) but obviously not as low as if you straightened out both arms. The key words are the hands as low and as tight to the right leg as POSSIBLE while keping the right elbow up and behind you. I hope this clears up any muddied water.
Jim Hardy

Jim,

Would you agree that pinning the right armpit as closely to the right side of the torso would accomplish this?

I ask because I have been having a lot of success with pinning the right arm (but not too much since you prefer a little room between the torso and right arm in the book) which I feel helps the club wrap around my body nicely during the swing.

I have adopted this method when I pitch or chip, and even putting as long as I avoid spine tilt or coming out of the shot. My short game has been impressive in accuracy.

Thanks in advance,
Tim Chong

It would be ok to feel your right arm pit tight as long as the right elbow stays on the side of your body (down the seam of your shirt) and is not allowed to get in front of the right side (in front of the seam of your shirt) until after impact.
Jim Hardy

Jim,

Thank you for your reply. Please further clarify this very important movement of the right elbow. On the backswing, does the “UP” come solely from the “bending” of the elbow?

In order to reach the correct position at the top, I subscribe to your advice on Page 36 of the book and rotate BOTH my left and RIGHT forearms. I find the clubHEAD moves a great distance by simply bending the right elbow while rotating both forearms. That allows me to make a full shoulder turn with a very short arm swing. Now if I could only repeat that move on the follow-through (too many years of swinging down the line)

The question here is: What does the upper half of the right arm do? Does it simply follow along with the shoulder turn - OR - does it also hinge up at the shoulder socket as a required part of getting the “RIGHT ELBOW UP”?

Thank you for your consideration and assistance.

Please, someone else take over this thread. I have been as clear on this subject of the right elbow in both the book and here on the website as I can do it. Possibly someone else can state it clearer.
JH

Golfaholic,

I'm going to take a crack at this since I believe understand what Jim Hardy was talking about. The result of the right elbow UP during the downswing is from keeping "behind your right hip, against your right side, not in front of your right hip" (p.112).

It seems like straightening out your right elbow will cause your hands to be outside of the inner circle of the impact zone. I believe the purpose of right elbow UP is to keep the hands in the inner circle and clubhead in the outer circle -- all this to avoid adding width to the swing, which is disastrous for the 1-plane swing.

Finally, check out the drill sections in the book starting on page 109. The Elbows Up, Arms Across Drill and the One-Plane Release Drill should help clarify several things are you confused about. (I can't quite explain as well as Jim attempted, but my main swing feel is: being restricted and dead with the arms while the torso does more of the work.)

Sorry Jim, I should've remembered the role of the right arm from the book before posting a question to you earlier.

Thanks Mr. Hardy!

Tim Chong